check it out here

Garry Gillard

Think I've got the linkey thing right but we'll see..

:)

xxx

"She (my great-aunt) learned it from a travelling tailor who came to mend her father's clothes, probably between 1804 and 1807. The story she told her nephew (my father) was that she listened outside the window of the room where the tailor worked, ran away to practice what she had heard, and then returned for more. I learned the song by hearing my father and eldest sister sing it, who both had it from the fountain-head, so to speak. I am sure both copied the great-aunt faithfully, as it was performed with a rather nasal twang and several little kinks and turns, especially before the last note; also a cousin who had it from his mother makes no variation in his rendering. Some years ago I wrote it down for the interest of it."

A.L. Lloyd's comments from the Penguin Book are here: History of Benjamin Bowmaneer. The DT file derives from Joe Hickerson, who learned the song from the book, as did Eliza Carthy; I wouldn't consider either recording to be a distinct variant in its own right.

Since that time, another version has emerged. It was noted by James Madison Carpenter from Sam Bennett (1865-1951) of Ilmington in Warwickshire, some time between 1928 and 1935. The tune is closer to the putative ancestor-tune, -Spanish Ladies, according to Anne Gilchrist- than the (more interesting) Yorkshire set.

THE PROUD TAILOR

(Noted by James Madison Carpenter from Sam Bennett (1865-1951) of Ilmington in Warwickshire, some time between 1928 and 1935.)

I can tell you how the world begun,
Benjamin Boglegun,
Tell you how the world begun,
Low cast away,
I can tell you how the world begun,
Nine tailors make a man.
Still the proud tailor went prancing away,
And still the proud tailor went prancing away.

The tailor were sat at work
Picked a louse off his shirt.

With his needle he made a sword
Stabbed the louse on the board.

With his bodkin he made a gun
Shot the louse as he run.

With his scissors he made some shears
Snipped off the louse's ears.

With his thimble he made a bell
Rung the louse into hell.
^^

This was first published in Roy Palmer's Everyman's Book of British Ballads (1980, re-issued by Llanerch Press in 1998 as A Book of British Ballads). A midi of the tune will go to The Mudcat Midi Pages; meanwhile it can be heard via the South Riding Folk Network site:

The Proud Tailor (midi).

There may be some relationship between Benjamin Bowmaneer and The Tailor and the Louse; this latter is a modernisation of The War-Like Taylor, which in turn derived from a mock-heroic piece by John Taylor, A Dreadful Battle between a Taylor and a Louse (c.1655: information from Claude M. Simpson, The British Broadside Ballad and Its Music, 1966). The tune originally prescribed was I am the Duke of Norfolk; Simpson gives two examples; the second one in particular seems to show some similarities to the Bowmaneer tune, but that could just be my imagination.

:o)

xxx

Would you know how the wars began
Benjamin Bowlabags
Would you know how the wars began
Cast threads away
Would you know how the wars began
Nine tailors make a man
And so the proud tailor went prancing away

With his needle he made a spear
And ran the mouse through the ear

With his bodkin he made a gun
And shot he mouse as he run

With his scissors he dug a pit
And shoved the mouse into it

With his thimble he made a bell
And toll'd the mouses funeral knell
^^
The inclusion of the line 'Nine Tailors make a man' is interesting. There is a tune - at first glance it looks quite close to the Yorkshire one. I'll have a play with it.

Martin

If Mary Spence's version was published in 1933, it is just conceivable that Bennet might have "tailored" a version specially for someone collecting from him in 33-35.

Or it may be genuinely traditional in Warwickshire.

WassaiL! V

Thank you everyone

Something good amongst the flotsam

Maybe mudcat has life yet!

Benjamin Bowlabags (midi)

Sam Bennett probably didn't read the Journal (and was likely visited by Carpenter before the Spence/Foster set was published in any case) so it seems reasonable to consider his set to be a quite separate variant.

The song is, I should have said, previously unpublished and comes from the 'Personal Copy' of his manuscripts. And if anyone is bursting to know what I'm talking about return immediately to the aforementioned web-site where much will be revealed (including an index of the songs in the MS)

Martin

EJ

From his pin box he made a cell wherein that flea might dwell.

From strong thread he made a noose if e'er that flea got loose.

Elsewhere SBG talks about the way in which tailors were seen as 'less than manly' and the nine tailors make a man could be taken in that context. Certainly the tailor gets a pretty raw deal in folk song.

From His Shear Board he made a horse
All for him to sit across

and

From his scissors he made Bridle Bits
To keep his horse all in its wits

tho these may be modern additions

Thanks

Paul

I have to say that I completely disagree with you.

You appear interested in 'Benjamin Bowlabags' Fine.

It's a varient, certainly.

It doesn't however have any more validity than any verse I might make up of the cuff...

...apart from being over 100 years older than mine...

Paul

Of course cobblers got a similar treatment in folk songs too...

I am going to resist the temptation to get into the new lyrics vs old debate again - well, almost. It does matter, to me at least, that you know whether you are dealing with traditional singers or 'folkies' - but I'm not going to assign one or the other a higher 'value'. If it's fun, do it!

Martin

No-one is saying that you have to agree, or even be interested.

Noreen